f/8 and be there...

Tangier Island,Virginia 1972                                          Fisherman and Wife

 

maybe photographers are not really the largest group of procrastinators in the world , and maybe i just sometimes think this because i am around so many photographers...but, some photographers do have a way of "explaining" the myriad of "good reasons" why they are not doing what they would really like to do...

many come to my home or my workshops to show their work hoping that i will be able to give them a "magic formula" for success, or just please please  hand over my list of "important people" and their phone numbers and surely this will lead to double page spreads and heavy coffee table books...

so many photographers have the hardest time facing the fact that they simply must just "get out the door"...whether they go next door or around the world makes no difference at all....it does not matter where the "there" is, but you cannot be "there" if you are not THERE.....

i first heard the "f/8 and be there" phrase from W.E. "Bill" Garrett, swashbuckling Editor of Natgeo from the mid 70's to the late 80's and by far the most SUPERPOWER editor ever at "ole yeller"...he rode a large stallion and swung a long sword....some lived in fear, some in awe....during the Garrett era Natgeo circulation was "blowing up" and money was no object to sending a photographer anywhere anytime for any amount of time...i do not know if Bill actually coined the phrase, but i think he thinks he did...whatever.....but, this "f/8 and be there"  as the obvious way to make meaningful photographs, was the mantra of photoland at Natgeo...

Bill liked me or my work or both...my first essay for Natgeo, "Tangier Island" (Nov.1973),a cover story, made it into print because Bill liked it....had Bill not liked it, my life would have gone in a completely different direction.....in American football parlance, Bill sent me into the end zone and threw me a "long pass".....i caught it....of course, i had worked so so so hard on this project for so so so little money to feed my young family , so i had gambled everything ....i had given up a "real job" and a "real salary" to take this chance with Natgeo...

in the years to follow, Bill and Natgeo became my Medici...my support system....my resource.....and my extended family for sure....this , however, did not eliminate the fact that it was still "f/8 and be there"...no amount of social graces or friendships  could ever eliminate the sometimes harsh reality that i had to actually "DO IT"...

i always implore the photographers i mentor, to please please minimize the "who can i get to know" list and maximize the "here is what i will do" list....one thing i do know for sure, if you have the work, really  HAVE THE WORK, your Medici will materialize....it would have done me no good whatsoever to have made a "good impression" on Garrett, had i not had the work....

all of you are now in a position to show your work in a way i never had nor did anyone in my generation have..the net....right here...right now... this forum...if you go out and do the work, you will be seen my more potential Medici's than i have seen in my entire career....yes, yes (i can hear the excuses already) there are more of you...true....but in the sea of photographers out there , i still see about the same number of "supertalents" as in years prior...more people taking pictures, but few doing it in a special way....but if you are "special" there are also way way more opportunities...and so so much room for invention....i swear, i have never seen so much room!!!

i do not give advice to anyone....i do sometimes make suggestions.. you do need to find someone who loves you....loves your work...just one person...no, not your significant other or family/friend... yes of course, you want their support for a different reason ..but, you need a significant mentor.....i am talking about one "gallerist", one editor, one book publisher...do not attempt to "win everybody over"...pick two or three book publishers or galleries  or magazines where you think your work "fits"...then find the ONE who loves you the most...a relationship is a relationship...but do not even "go there" if you have not BEEN THERE!!! 

so how do you feel??  like a photographer with an arm full of great work who just needs a "break" to move forward....or do you realize your best lays out there ahead and you just must "get to it" ??

 

New York City, 2008                                                            Brooklyn Bridge

Comments

[Sidney Atkins]

David,

Great Post!
I think "f/8 and be there" is much older than Bill Garrett, it's an old newspaper photographer shibboleth from the 40s at least.
As for your final question... One reason (among mnay) that I haven't been posting here recently is that I definitely need to 'get out there' more, now that I am finally getting to be 'in my own skin' as a photographer. More later when I have something put together to show!

Sidney

[Michael Kircher]

Shit...I hope my best still is out there! I hope it always will be. Otherwise I have no point for existence.

I am perfectly comfortable in saying I can produce. I know I'm capable of quality work (crap, too! But that will always be the case, right?) But everytime I go out, whether for my personal project or for an assignment, I am always pushing for/thinking about "better." Better than the last outing. Better than the last assignment.

David...after reading the above...not asking you for advice, but what "suggestion" would you give to me, right now, today, as things are in my current photographic existence?

Hope that's not too much trouble given where you are and what you're trying to prepare for!

As usual, many, many thanks!

Cheers.

Mike

[Michal Daniel]

Goes back to when f/8 was the widest wide open. 250 @ f/5.6 makes the most sense since f/5.6 came about.

[Sidney Atkins]

David,

Neither photo was up yet when I first read this post. I love the 'Fisherman and Wife' photo.

Cheers!

[nelson d'aires]

i always implore the photographers i mentor, to please please minimize the "who can i get to know" list and maximize the "here is what i will do" list....one thing i do know for sure, if you have the work, really HAVE THE WORK, your Medici will materialize...

absolutely david, it was this thebeginning of my life as photographer at full time. but first i was making stories just to my self discovering myself and the others.

cheers,
nelson

[anton]

i think i'd have to say "the best lays ahead of me"... i mean i am constantly learning, leaps and heaps and leaps at a time, seeing new things, discovering, realising that it is all about the journey, not just reaching the end goal (whatever that may be)

i feel like i am a student of my own eyes, my heart, my mind, my guts... looking and learning with the openness and curiosity of a little child... i get pushed over in every direction i can imagine, and everything influences me profoundly... i hope i never lose that, but maybe i should... i am so naive...

that said, i do hope to find the way to "get to it" as you say... and from time to time it really worries me that i don't "know the way" to get there...

whatever way that may be...

is the concept of medici still possible in this day and age? i definitely hope so, and i believe it very important...

peace
anton

[panos skoulidas]

F64...
or
... F2.8... this is where magic happens!

[wrobertangell]

Hi David
beautiful photographs, I love the picture from Tangier, I think thats an incredibly beautiful shot. I get a nice calm feeling when I look at that photograph. perfect for Saturday.
thanks for the insightfull words too.
good reading, and looking forward to how this post unfolds

[bobblack]

DAVID :)))

there is nothing that i could or wish to add to the post, for in the end, that's the rhyme and the chime...to work, to swing long against the darkness and to know that, no matter what, if you yourself don't believe in the breadth and depth, the blood and the breath, the sound and the bone of your work, no one ever will...i have spent my very short life as a photographer believing and doubting in the work and the direction, never really hoping that i would find a mentor, but only hoping for something simpler: that beyond the sea of eyes and ears, there would be a person, or if fortune reigned, two who would believe and feel the same electric alchemy that I feel when making and writing stories and photographs...i've felt extraordinarily fortune (as I wrote you privately this week) to have a drink and eat upon the friendship that you have fed me...I am not sure if I consider you a "mentor" or a "medici", but i consider you an older brother and one to whom I am bound, even in moments of chaos and confusion and miscommunication...

Marina and I for so long have tried to create our own path, our own roads, we've worked incredibly hard to get gallery shows (just left the relationship with the gallery because of our principles) and to work hard to make the show...often making our work when no one knows or cares...in the end, it has to be the reason...photography and writing is the oxygen that stirs our family's life and burns without surcease....and i have, no, WE have never searched our mentors or editors or medici's or others, and yet when we've been deeply loyal to the work and to friendship and to the living of making images, somehow people have come...

we'll never be rich family and most likely never "well known" artists, but we have carved something much simpler:

to live as if the only voice in our body was the spin and hum of the world....

whatelse can a person do....

thank you for being our mentor here at the blog and for doing so much for ALL of us...

running

hugs
bob

ps.. something about this idea, from the poem/essay Ordinary Things (the one with the David Alan Harvey quote) that i just submitted for publication:

"14. Late in the crux of morning my wife bends forward and speaks, ecumenically, and pauses as if a gnat of light birched into a corner: I dreamed that I took a child into my arms and pulled his cowlicked mouth against my breast, bowed my arms around his clavicle, whispered to him as if milkweed settled upon the the spine-stem of a root, that he was protected and i rose aloft. I rose, child to my breast, air beneath my collar and cage and arms, my arms bent and bending like wings until i was aloft and adrift like a bird, he still clinging to my nipple. I, after a moment of surprise and in-expectation, alighted upon the thatched roof. I sat upon the gutter and bone of the spout of the root, like an owl, and curled out my song while he suckled upon me. I was a bird, sitting upon the perch of the roof, child at my side draining me of all that I am in order to nourish all that I dream to be. I was a bird. He was a still a child, human child, and he clipped the skin of my tit, he bruised the fruit of my hope, he swallowed all that I dreamt i would be in order to be that which I meant him to be, by leaping into flight. We leap. We sit upon the roof and speak as if a hum, as if a song. We alight not as if birds, but as bone and feather and dream. We fly, not from skeleton but from alchemy. Squawk. By the dreams end, he fell from beneath my breast, and my wings squandered the air in descent. There, the falling. The ascend from the plummet. How could I have been aperch? All that. All that. Listen....past your window...do you hear that, the leap and the anguish and the falling.."-from Ordinary things, bobblack

[bobblack]

P.S. I LOVE LOVE THE TANGIER PHOTOGRAPH! :)))....and the Kibbutz pic: especially the Asian woman's piruet foot and the light on her face :)) (same woman from Nachtwey pic??) :))

running toward water

b

[young tom]

Ah well, the best most certainly lies ahead and, of course, just getting out there and doing it is the most important thing. Workshop helped me immeasurably with this. But i think too how you live your life, how you approach life, plays a big part in getting out the door and making compelling work. Just figuring that out ... big changes ... getting a life again ;-) The best is most certainly ahead ... :)))

[mike]

David,
I've been taking pictures with intent since November, inspired to do so by you and this blog... everything I've done since is throwaway... I'm trying to find my voice, work on my technical chops, get the derivative, puerile, cliche, stupid pictures out of my system. That being said, it's time, I think, to start making some decisions...

To answer your question, my best work is on a map somewhere I have never been, but I'm getting closer, slowly, with each step. But I'm enjoying the view as I go along.

I have a question, David... I'm coming to the conclusion that viewing work on the internet (obviously) is a totally different experience from sitting in a room with some nicely printed 11x14 prints... The internet experience favors a certain type of work, and is totally inappropriate for others (mine, I think!)... for several reasons.. scale is a problem, setting up rhythms between two or more pictures (side-by-side) is impossible, the physicality of the picture is gone. These problems are very destructive to the experience of viewing photography for me. I wonder what you think, and do you think that the primacy of the internet as a vehicle to display work is changing photography, and is it for the better? If a website reduces, in some way, the work, what's a photographer to do? Should I just cave in to modern living and judge pictures by how they look online?

[david alan harvey]

BOB...

you are a great writer/photographer and damn good private detective too!! yes, i shot that on the roof when i you all were interviewing James...

MIKE

for all of the virtues of the net, looking at pictures is not really one of them...yes, i feel the same as you about scale, tone etc etc....

the net is for building community or awareness or information related...having an 11x14 in your hands or a giant wall mural print becomes an entirely different experience...the web is just a tool...NOT a FINAL product...

SIDNEY, MICAL...

thanks for clearing up the history of "f/8 and be there"

MICHAEL K...

can you please ask me that question again next week (after the 14th)??...i am running now to meet my new students for this week in c'ville...thnx for your patience amigo...

cheers, dafvid

[young tom]

"to live as if the only voice in our body was the spin and hum of the world...."

BOB! :)))) Yes, yes ... consciousness. very well put, i will remember this. You are a muse ... did i ever tell you this? it is true, and very rare. someday soon i will have something to show you ....

And SIDNEY, it's good to hear from you again neighbor!!!! missed you here. please hang with us :)))

tom

[Srinivas Kuruganti]

i've been taking photos for the last ten eyars and i don;t really have mentor, i wish i had but whatever I've learned in photography is from asking and getting advice from other photographers.

i wish i was further in this field than i am now but i think the important thing for me to remember is that i am still doing it, that i haven't give up and i still continue to submit work for grants etc.

[Michael Kircher]

No problem David!

Will definitely say hi to you in C'ville. But will get back at this "future" stuff with you after the 14th.

Thanks.

[robert wiedenfeld]

david: wow i was born in Oct.73 one month after Tangier Island was published in Nat Geo, boy do i feel dated. seriously fisherman and his wife is luminous and forces me to realize that some of the best pictures are on our own soil. as a child i would peruse through the pages of national geographic as my grandfather had been a proud subscriber since the first half of the 1900's. he had a whole bookshelf with many rows by the time i had become a teenager. anyways david i just want to say thank you to the whole staff of national geographic for planting the seed of wanderlust in all of us.

not sure why however my favorite pictures are almost always made by the old school set of photographers. maybe life was more beautiful back then as it was more simple. maybe everyone had less everything so it was harder to be separate from oneself. i think that the most thought provoking pictures are always the ones that the subject is reduced to their core (essence). not easy to do. more specifically people that cant help but be authentically themselves always because that is who and what they are. after the industrial revolution people started to change undoubtedly and not always for the better good of mankind. with the henry fords model A the american dream was then Born. seems as though an avalanche or snowball effect was in store for all of us. soon enough our material items would start owning many of us. making everyone compare and contrast who has the most or the biggest everything mentality. keeping up with the jones family.. technology is a double edged sword. technology separates and brings us all together simultaneously. perhaps less is more, only time will tell. well i do appreciate you bringing us back to a time that appears to be measured through an hourglass.

robert

[Akaky]

Inspired by this thread, I determined to go out to f/8 and be there for our happy little burg's annual homage to Fedora, the hat goddess. My pockets full of Tri-X, my two digital p & s's set to Postive mode, I sallied forth to record the paraders and their strange hats. Here in our happy little burg the temperature is currently 98 degrees Fahrenheit, or 36.6666667 degrees for those of you on the distaff thermometer, and the humidity is hovering somewhere close to 145%. It is hazy, it is hot, it is excessively humid. In short, even the damn mosquitioes are sweating like Mrs Murphy's prize pig. I hereby authorize all here on this blog to take me out and slap me until I come to my senses the next time I even think of trying this stunt again.

[Akaky]

You know what really makes me feel dated? Robert talking about dated he feels because he was born the month after the Tangier Island story came out in NatGeo. If that makes him feel dated, how much more dated must I feel then, since this story came out in the second month of my sophomore year in high school, and now I must listen to infants complaining about how old they're getting? You guys are not helping me get out of my chronology funk.

[asher]

DAVID,

I agree completely with your wake up call. Just waiting for a "break", to be discovered is a dead end, rather than to actively discover. Any successes I've had have come from a firm belief in what I was doing, persistence, and "work", although when things really click, the "work" feels more like "play", and who wants to stop playing??? So definitely, my "best lays out there ahead" and I am jumping on it.

[Paul Treacy]

My answer to your question is both. I've never been readier than I am RIGHT NOW! And I've been through the ringer, so I know.

It's as I wrap up here in New York City and ponder my return to full-time shooting "Euroside" that I know I'm ready. Letters from old clients saying good bye and is there anyone I can suggest to them that could take over my work, have helped me realize that I'm ready. Knowing that I have to provide for my kids and set an example that anything is possible with hard work and a little bravery helps too.

Wanting to make work that will dazzle my wife is a huge motivator. It's the biggest motivator. Prevarication is not an option. Just make it happen is all that matters.

I have some good work behind me and I've not yet done enough with it but my best is out there waiting for me.

I'm ready to scavenge ever harder to find the zaniness, the craziness that humankind has to offer. And not just humankind, of course.

Bring it on, world.

I wonder, David, about that little book you are, or perhaps were, writing, how goes that?

Thanks for those invigorating words above.

[robert wiedenfeld]

f8 and be there: david, for us neophytes could u please give some background information to tangier island. curious as to a picture taken roughly forty years ago..are you transported back to that scene when you see your own picture ( fisherman and wife) do you remember the scent of the place or the light or perhaps scraps of conversation or a car parked outside or the coffe-tea shared with guests ?? also the camera and film is that all cemented in the minds eye of memory when looking at ones obsession in retrospect through a lifetime of shutter speeds and f-stops ? do you miss the days of kodachrome ? i heard that national geographic society bought over 50,000 rolls of kodachrome and froze it years ago for all the photographers whom prefered this film > true or false ?

[Lee Guthrie]

Getting out there and doing the work...Then finding something to do with the work...Then making it pay...

Since I took up the camera as a way to integrate into a group foreign to me, photography has taken on its own life. It leads me about like a bull with a ring in its nose.

People are constantly asking: what kind of photos do you take? I say, whatever comes into my viewfinder. Then I say to myself, what's up with this need to label what kind of photographer I am. I'm a shooter.

What kind of photograher am I? What am I doing with the work? Why is it that any time you get into something new that interests you it all of a sudden becomes a deadline? A requirement? Something that has to be done?

I remember when I was working on getting into Harvey's loft workshop last October he said it was for those that wanted to get to the next level. At the end of that workshop I felt like I was at another level. It became clear to me, again, that I could shoot good photos and it was a huge relief. Half way through that workshop I was ready to quit and Harvey said, "That's rediculous." And it was. But that is how I felt and sometimes, like an alcoholic or drug addict, you have to hit bottom to find your way back up.

Each time I reach a new peak I feel like I have to start all over climbing another one. Now I am struggling, for some reason, with getting the right exposure. The intense sun of the mainland in summer is one of the issues for sure. Like a newby I feel like I am starting all over again with this exposure issue.

Then I capture that perfect photo that really blows my skirt and all who see it go WOW. That is what it is all about for me.

I do have an advantage in that photography doesn't pay my bills; but then maybe it is a disadvantage in that it doesn't have to pay my bills and sometimes gets put on the back burner.

In an earlier topic Harvey commented that he felt my photography was a way of expressing the emotions and tribulations of my life over these past 18 months. That is what I am struggling with now. It is easy enough to take documentary photos but those "conceptual" photos are the hardest for me.

The pieces I put together from the shoots of the old flames came together nicely but they are documentary, not conceptual.

My oldest daughter, in whose house we are staying in this portion of the vacation, has a husband in Afghanastan. There are flags and patriotism incorporated into the decor of her new home. Big bed with a lonely figure, kids hanging out in a room with US flag curtains. A little girl with a constrant frown on her face from missing her daddy. But it still hasn't come together totally.

How does one take a series of photos depicting the course of events in their life and/or family/friends in a conceptual piece? That is what I am struggling with, besides getting my exposures back on track.

And one day I might even finally get the flash thing to work for me!

Lee

[David Root]

great post david. to your point, i know that my future lies with a story up north, way north in fact.

if only funding were no object :)

best,
dave

www.davidlroot.com

[Eric Espinosa]

DAVID,

Great post... I love the first picture of the fisherman...At first, I had not seen the date and I thought that this could be one of the first pictures from your new American Families project.... By the way, as I saw that you will open the actual Look3 festival on Thursday, I have advanced my arrival by one day....If I drive all the way to Charlottesville, I was not going to miss "Uncle David"....

Regarding your question, for me, there is no hesitation...If "best" there is, best lays out there ahead. I have so much to learn... I do hope that, at some stage in the future, looking back, I will be able to say that I was able to eventually "get to it"... It may take a little bit longer for me than for others... I guess I am no exception to many who find "good reasons" why they are not doing what they would really like to do...You know my reason...always the same...the busy professional career that I have outside photography that does not always leave me as much time as I would wish to be able to "get to it". But, at the end of the day, it is a poor excuse...it is entirely up to me to change life and priorities... I am also sometimes wondering if it is possible to also get to it at my own pace, even without becoming a full time professional photographer...I remember that not so long ago, I was not taking any pictures oustide of the 1-2 weeks of vacations I would spend traveling into an exotic destination. I lived in Rome for 3 years and must not have taken one picture of the city...was simply not seeing anything around that was inspiring me...I thought I needed to be somewhere else to take great pictures...and then...I decided that it would be a good idea to join one of your workshops to learn more...in Rome...and then, as you know, during one intense week, I shot more pictures of Rome than in the previous 3 years...during that one week, no excuse...like the other students, I had to produce so I went out and tried to make a few interesting photographs... Since that one week David, there has rarely been a week during which, somehow, I do not touch my camera, or open a book, get out of the door to take a few shots if only to take pictures of my great kids... I will be forever grateful to you for having inspired me, for having encouraged me...I do not know if I could best describe you as a mentor for me... what I know David is that you have a great gift in that you are able to touch others' life in a unique way...funny to see Bob talk to you as a long time friend, almost family, and yet the two of you have never met.... Great gift to see the best in others and help them realize their best... In many ways, you have touched my life and if I ever "go and get it" this will be thanks to you...Keep reminding us to get out of the door, produce NOW!!!!!NOW is not always easy and in my case, it may take me longer to accumulate a good body of work but hey....recall I am still young!!!!! I am only 40 (Shit, 40???).

I hope to bump into you and say HI in Charlottesville....I am sure you will be a busy man this week so hopefully we still get a chance to meet... I am traveling there with wife and kids in a good "Harvey fashion" (we are actually heading afterwards to Charleston for one week of vacations with the kids) so I might try to meet few bloggers but may be tough to join party animals like Panos and follow the Rythm....

Cheers,

Eric

PS: By the way, as I needed to get out of the door, I have jsut started my idea of "boxing" in the ghetto. I took some shots and earlier this week, I shared some very large prints that I did for the kids/ guys of the gym....It was great...They loved it and I now have full freedom to go there and shoot. I am sure you will not have much time to look at the start if this project but if some of our bloggers want to have a look and share perspective, this is very welcomed.

http://www.ericespinosa.com/main.php

When back from vacations, I will spend more time shooting these kids, at the GYM and outside and, who knows, if you like the idea, we still have the opportunity to possibly turn this into an assignement although I will pursue this idea, assignment or not.

[cathy]

Son of a B$%#^!

I just wrote a long post complete with links to many of the emerging photographers whose portfolios I viewed last night at the public viewing for Review Santa Fe and lost it all. Darn!!!

To recap...

I certainly hope my best is ahead. The big question is HOW FAR ahead? :))

Your comment is very timely. I saw the work of 100 photographers who were juried into Review Santa Fe last night and what was incredibly clear is that most of these folks have WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF.

Here are links to photographers I liked. Take a look and see what you think.

http://www.menuez.com
http://www.clemencedelimburg.com/ (a former intern for DAH)
http://www.juliedenesha.com/

[cathy]

Nevermind...
The site won't let me post all the various links.
Thinks they are spam.

I did meet a fellow DAH blogger there.
Davin Ellicson was a participant. Check out his link too.

[Lung Liu]

I think you really need to answer to both sides. Although it's true that you can't get anywhere if you don't have the work to show for it, I find that most photographers have the work and simply believe that if they are a great photographer, then work and recognition will come to them and that's simply not the case. They need to go out there and show it, market themselves and make sure as many people as possible see their work. You need to produce, yes, but you also need to market. They go hand in hand.

I also agree that it is important to have that one contact who loves your work. I met a really nice guy who was a supervising editor for AP and if it wasn't for his help in motivating me, I would have only aspired to find work at the local paper...I'm still trying to find my way, but at least now I have more ambition than that and believe that the possibility of following my dreams exist.

[robie ray]

DAVID-if i remember right the cover for the tangier story was a crab hanging on the finger of a young man.
bill abourjilie in norfolk used the 5:8 and be there back in the 60s--that was the first time i had heard of it

[Herve]

"get to it"....Obviously! ;-)

There is always something in your entry posts, David, that hits us and helps redirect our energies, or rething our assumptions. For me, It's you saying not to knock at too many doors, "please evryone". And I relate it as well to James Nachtwey telling us he works with few, but committed media outlets (though TIMES is no shabby relationship!).

Anyway that threw me off, in a good sense.

I wonder if some here have found that special relationship already, it would be great to tell us.

[lisa Hogben]

BOB, BRUZ YOUR WORDS MAKE ME SWOON!!!!!!!!!!!

I am serious, when I get my book happening I would be honored if you wrote an essay for it!!!!!!!!

I believe you are by far the most talented essayist I have read in a long time, your work is visceral and emotive to the point where I can feel, tangibly- like the hug you give at the end of each of your pieces, I can feel those arms and the child and the perch, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant....

DAVID

I also thought the first shot was from your new series. Also brilliant, brilliant, brilliant! Its funny isn't it, there is always something inside each of us that is so unique and distinctive and it just yells out who we are in our work.

I reckon its all about finding that thing under the layers of stuff that we are taught that we are meant to be through life. I handed my friend's (who passed away) 11-year old daughter my camera the day of the funeral to give her something to keep her mind off everything at the wake and her photos are great, framing feel everything. She photographed the celebration of her Dads life without fear. If I have my way she will never learn to be bowed down by the critics either. Or told its 'inappropriate' to express herself.

So I am not sure that it always is about 'f-8 and be there' I think it can be more a case of overcoming the knowledge that being creative is not a sin. That picking up a camera, a paintbrush, a pen to express who we are is not either a pleasant 'hobby' or a 'waste of time' or 'worthless' because it doesn't make money and having the courage of your convictions enough to keep going until you 'get it'.

DAVID

I don't want to sound like I am whingeing but I do have one question, is it always a struggle- not to do the work, that's the joyful easy bit- but to try and find that 'Medici'? Someone that is actually willing to take a bet on you? Maybe I am intrinsically a 'misfit' and a 'loner' but it seems to me the more my work is more me, the less work I am getting. Or perhaps the point is 'me' is crap and not worth continuing with.

[wrobertangell]

Herve
on my last job, I had the good fortune to be in the prescence of a major photo editor, who happened to be a close freind of the person that hired me. so I am thinking holy crap, what an awesome opportunity. we actually kind of collaberated on the event.
so then when all the work was done, I sent over a disk with all the work on it, and a week later I get an email back saying how much they liked the work, and quote "we should get you on something in LA", so naturally I am leaping around with joy, doing back flips all the way down 8th street and back again, finally maybe this is it, my opportunity to be featured in a major major publication. I am pacing around, chomping at the bit, a race horse ready to bolt, as soon as that gate opens.
so I mentioned my book mock up, and the reply is "send it!' so that was sent out last week. I gave it a week and last Monday sent out a msg, but I still have'nt heard from them yet.
this is a publication that if I landed an assignment could be huge, but the waiting game is really doing my nut in. I don't really know what I should do. the last thing I want to do is bother a major editor, but at the same time, I don't want to slip out of their mind.
I don't think thats going to happen, reason being was that I recieved such a positive response. I can't imagine that such a heavy weight would send out a false msg, but this waiting is so tough.
its really got me thinking about the relationship that photographers have with art directors and photo editors. we are in their hands. thats pretty tough, you know, especially because we all, in a way, demand our indepedence.
I have over the last 15 years accumulated a lot of work. work that I am extremely proud of. so I feel that I have a really solid body of work, I have not been idle, but at the same time, I also feel that where I am at right now I think I am producing my best work. (thats just my own thoughts, you can tear my work apart if you want, critique or whatever), so even though I feel good about my work to this point, I really enjoy each step forward.
so this post "f8 etc", kind of pertinent to my life right now.
also made contact with to interesting gallerists today. there is quite a strong art scene developing in downtown LA at the moment.
so, this was good for me to read Davids post. kind of perfect. we shall see though, like I said last post, had a lot of ups and downs, so...I don't know. I hope, pray to the Mystery God, something...Mystery God...unravel the secrets of this confusion. show me to the path.

[JChance]

Thanks for the honest comments regarding the portraits. Useful feedback. Should perhaps have given a bit of background info... They are not to be included in the essay I am producing. They were shot to be used in the Multimedia piece running with this project. I have audio of the subjects introducing themselves and saying how long they have been living in the cemetery. I hope they work better in this way as the overall response to the images has been mediocre. Thats fine, all the incentive I need to go out and work on my medium format technique. The camera (a Rollei) was gifted to me by my late grandfather, this was its first outing and I have to say I loved using it! I'll have to check out your site again ERICA for some inspiration.

CHARLIE:

Absolutely mate! V. happy to help out. I got your email and will check your work today. Bear with me, will get back to you, promise!!

LISA:

Been meaning to say for a while. Love the new site. Right fancy!!!

Cheers peeps!

James

[lisa Hogben]

HEY JAMES C

Cheers for that mate, needed a prod today. Very, very eviction type broke AAAARRRGGGHHH! (hope they keep the site up, I owe them $'s on top of all else)

BTW mediocre response? The new work is unbelievably gorgeous! I am in awe (and kinda envious) When you gonna apply to the big M 'eh?

[Herve]

Wrobert, not everyone has answered David's yet, but yours was the most honest, probably because it's happening now too, yet you did not go on a flight of fancy, which is so easy when we talk about art, how much we can achieve by being....Smirk....Unachievers, and call that total freedom.
You are out there, suspended, and not pretending that whatever happens, you' ll fall on your feet. No courage, no art.

Thanks, man, wake-up call from you too.

Also, coming from the many discussions we have here, and maybe I read wrong, but aren't we in general putting too much discrepancy between work and "personal project"? Why couldn't a photographer put as much excellence in work done for a living as in a side project. Somehow, I think that is the challenge underlined in David's entry: trust your best work is not just a secret garden, but what you really have to offer.

[Herve]

Sorry, errata again, I should have written "most personal" work, not "best" work.

[Herve]

Hey James, it's not mediocre, far from it, but when David wrote me a few lines about my EPF essay, he said he was judging it against the highest standard, something I am sure he has told evryone else, and it's a damned good and honest way to go about it.

I have not seen anything mediocre from anyone here. It's the last word that would enter my thoughts.

[audrey bardou]

Hello,

I am not sure to have seized well your expression,
I think that it is by the work that I shall arrive to a career, I don't still worry about it, I think that I have to photograph and that it will come later, and I always hope the best of me (but maybe I have already made him(it)? It is what what frightens me), but I continue to photograph by hoping for the best to come...
This summer, I am going to have some photos exposed in Arles in the gallery sfr and also a projection during the festival Voies Off in Arles, it isn't much but I am already very satisfied, I always thought that the work will pay one day and I have the impression that it begins, 3 years on a subject and it begins to move....
found you, accidentally, I learn many things with you all here, notably photographers (you and the others) whom I didn't know or little, painters, authors... thank you very much
And I hope that I shall find as you said a gallery owner or a chief editor or..., I have already found a quite small agency photo in Marseille www.camayeuxmarseille.com who believes in me, I didn't gain(win) money for the moment, but they believe in me and it is already a lot...
I work and we shall see well...

Kind regards,
audrey

[David Ryder]

david, i just have to get to it. my creativity is still developing, but i am 'ready', and now i have to use my brain to take my story ideas and content and intimacy in my stories to the next level.

my 'armful of great work' burned up in my house fire last month, right after an agency said i was close but i didn't quite have a good enough portfolio to join them yet....this is no coincidence in my opinion... all that work was just the first steps on the staircase i am climbing, and i am only looking forward.... so look out!

--david ryder

[Davin Ellicson]

Classic! You are doing a great blog David! Hope to meet up at Look 3 next week.

[audrey bardou]

thank you Cathy for your links...

audrey

[Harry]

The best work always has to be the next job. One of the great things about taking pictures is you can always get better, be better. Sometimes everything slips through your fingers and turns into a pile of shit but then it would be no fun if it was too easy. I'm currently trying to get hold of some camera traps for my next couple of trips so it could well be a case of F8 and be some where else.

I'm also waiting for that big break I've got some great stories that I failed to do anything with hopefully because I'm a shit businessman rather than a shit photographer.

[Eric Espinosa]

Charlie,

I did send you a message back with my suggestions for your edit. I hope this email reaches you. Let me know if this is not the case.

Cheers,

Eric

[JChance]

OK was maybe being a little harsh (woken up hungover by a drill and general loud maintenance sounds in the room directly above me this morning)... and I was by no means just referring to your comments HERVE (thanks for the follow up btw) :) A few have mentioned that the portraits are not up to the caliber of the essay work.

It is so necessary, and I appreciate it when people are willing to speak there mind regarding edits, pussy footing around is so detrimental to the process. Gotta tell it like it is!!! Hopefully will have the Multimedia finished tomorrow, Its been a real b**ch!!! (drilling and hammering really don't help the voiceover process either!!!).

James

[anton]

AKAKY i just had to tell you i laughed out loud this morning reading your comment :))))))

the day ahead is much lighter to me now, thanks for that!

peace
anton

[david alan harvey]

ALL....

as usual, your comments continue to inspire me....you are writing better and better all the time...i will be teaching all this week and so i will not have much time for responding, but i am reading and thinking.....

by the way, i noticed the other day that we had received well over 20,000 comments here on this forum since we started a little over a year ago...i do not know for sure, but i think that must be quite a few by blogland criteria...yes, yes i have the whole thing printed out...and, yes, i will soon have it all categorized by writer...all of Akaky in one place all of Cathy in another etc etc etc...

many of you will be around for Look3 and i am wishing that at least one of you will "report from the field" on the whole fest...

ok, running running to class...this will be my last workshop class for awhile actually...i must totally "drop out" of so many things to work on the family project...

wishing you all a good day...back soonest...

cheers et al, david

[mark page]

Some I've the best advice I've read..........

[bobblack]

DAVID :))...Detective, i guess that's comes from being a dad ;))...besides, my photographer eye tends to always look for shadows and lights and clues :))...have a great week and marina and i are with you in spirit...will write u after the 2 weeks have past and u're recovered :))

YOUNG TOM: ;))))...i dont think im beautiful enough to be a real muse: aren't they suppose to be gorgeous, the muse that is ;))...but i'll swallow any pics u have: would be a pleasure to look :))))

ANTON: Will write u something after you finish your workshop: now, you should concentrate soley on your time and the strong and brilliant insight of David: he'll give u more than anything i can write about your essay: have fun and knock us out with pics :))

SISTER LISA: :))))...would be my pleasure: u let me know, and i will make the time for you to write something :))))

ok, have to run (literally run) with marina :)))

by the way, i think it's interesting to put that for some photographers (like us) "personal work" is our work and the work we live and die by, earn money from...for others work that is "assignment" is their bread and butter and their existence ....it is entirely what kind of photographer you are and what means funnels your ends...maybe it's the "professional" distinction between being Editorial photographers and Fine Art photographers...i dont mean to classify or ghettoize, 'cause i dont believe in that distinction as a differentiating quality but one of funding per se......few magazines or media outlet will show the kind of work that marina and i do, though we try try try to get it seen, and often the outlet for us are galleries or books or websites, where as our best friend in Toronto (an Ian-perry award winning photographer) publishes in newspapers and magazines almost exclusively and often by assignment...though now she's working on a "personal" project ;))...

for me, the thing that matters the most is just that: have you committed yourself to what kind of photography you are doing and have you committed yourself to the time to do that...it often comes at great expense (for us, over the last year particularly the expense has been at great financial costs, which is why i am not with y'all this week at Charlottesville)...but, as Marina reminded me on friday: the work and then the money ;))...

good luck ya'll, great thread :))

ps. wrobertangell :)))) good luck good luck...i have a friend also who is a major major PE (she used to work for Magnum too) and i've never approached her for work, cause i know her mag would never publish our stuff, so i talk to her instead about photographs...i hope u get all that comes u r way :))

[Glenn]

I've been recently more concerned with WHAT? Rather than WHOM? for a while now.
The WHAT? is the harder of the 2 to reconcile because the who is subjective and leaves room for excuses......The WHAT?
Well that's the question is'nt it?
I'm still taking knocks and taking pictures , I'm sure it will work out in some fashion .......I am Living the WHAT?

PAUL - my wife gives me nothing but shit most of the time about my pictures,she is my punter.

[Charlie Mahoney]

BOB & DAVID: Inspirational. Thanks for helping us keep the eye on the ball.

ERICA, LISA, JAMES & ERIC: I haven't gotten to your emails yet, but I will now. Thanks.

ALL:
Why aren't we talking about a gathering one night in C'ville? I have to leave on Saturday because I'm going to Mexico, but I'm arriving with Brendan on Thursday, so Thursday or Friday night would be ideal!