war photographers.....

 

we have read quite a bit in the "comments" about the "a good time was had by all" at this year's Visa Pour L'Image (Perpignan)...and surely this was true....at least by most...however, this year's photo fest, which celebrates conflict photography above all, was in fact, in itself, a scene of violence and death...

Jason P. Howe (above) author of "Columbia:Between the Lines" and veteran war photographer in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon, was beaten senseless by five men as he left an evening slide show ... he  was heading to have a beer with us at the very Cafe Le Poste  in this picture...he said "they just kept yelling "money, money, money" ..i would have given them whatever i had...but they did not give me a chance..they just attacked...all they got was my cell phone..it was all i had on me"....Jason also told me that in all of his years being in and out of ridiculously dangerous situations, this was actually the worst thing that had happened to  him....

worse, 48 hrs before, and ironically  in the very spot where Jason stands for this picture, a local teenage woman took her own life by jumping from the top of the Castillet crashing to the ground in front of the merry festival goers sitting at this most popular "people watching" spot...

war photographer Bruno Stevens who has covered conflicts in Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon etc. said to me "i have seen everything doing my work...dismembered bodies, death all around, yet what i saw right here at Cafe le Poste was far and away the worst thing i have ever witnessed in my whole life..i cannot get over it..i am truly shaken".....

by all accounts , Perpignan is a quiet, charming,  peaceful town in the south of France by the sea...friendly locals who will remember you from year to year....good food and wine...and home of surely the very best photojournalism festival in the world...i would recommend it to anyone who may want to have documentary photography in their life...and i will return and walk without fear in the streets day or night...

but this year was a grim reminder that LIFE HAPPENS everywhere, all the time...ironic and tragic that these events happened at this event, but none of us can be spared from the realities that surround us at all times...we cannot have the PROTECTION from life that we may fantasize...all of us try, all of us fail...

this is not the first irony for me involving life around Cafe le Poste...all of the best war photographers in the  world were gathered on this very same spot on September 9,2001...i remember "shooting" a couple of tequilas with the war photographer of all war photographers Jim Nachtwey and all of the VII crew since they had just "launched" their agency...laughter, hugs, merriment....48 hours later Jim watched the second tower of the World Trade Center come down on top of him and i watched it from 15 blocks away...the weather that day was perfect....

life is fragile...fleeting....never to be taken for granted...no matter how sunny the day or how good the wine....does this story sound pessimistic coming from me??  i hope not....i am always optimistic by nature....my optimism comes from knowing about the fragility of life....knowing that i should always enjoy every  moment given to me and that every moment is special...i do not live in fear....

what about you??   where does your "reality check" kick in??  do you "fear the worst" or do you "expect the best"???

 

 

 

Comments

[panos skoulidas .]

ALL / GUIDO

much respect for the honest dialogue about sharing and receiving..just want to add that sometimes a lack of feedback is due to not having enough time, or happens simply because the words aren't accessible; not always because of a lack of appreciation.

Posted by: erica mcdonald | September 15, 2008 at 09:10 PM

Erica, ALL , i totally agree ...
Guido,... i was telling Pat the other day..
why people just email me personally and not talk in public, in the open forum..( especially if its a "positive" comment..?
i know the feeling of being "ignored", because , this is the NATURE of every ARTIST...
Guido, have faith ... not only in DAH, or "us" here in this blog..
but in yourself...
trust me,.. WE ALL FEEL IGNORED or INSECURE from times to times or once in a while... trust me.. trust us... its in the nature
of every "artist" i know... self doubt, insecurity.... you name it..
peace)

(thank you ERICA , you totally covered me on this...!:-)

[panos skoulidas .]

now... Cathy , you are really "funny" sometimes...

you are "raising hell" for NOT following the ("harsh and constructive critique.."? ) command over here ....
( when i was "doing" it... in ones face... all year long , last year,
you definitely did not "support" me on that......
soooooo, what happens now ...????

and since you are dying for a hardcore "CRITIQUE SESSION"..?????
then, why dont YOU , start with me.....????????????
( work critique i mean...)

so... instead of just complaining, why dont you start working...???
( ANYONE THAT MESSES WITH ANTON, IS MY enemy...! )

( cathy , before you get really upset, you know i love you...,
but you really, really bug me sometimes...:-))))))))))) )

[david alan harvey]

ERICA...PANOS....

thanks amigos...you summed it up....

GUIDO...

to the best of my recollection (which is not always perfect) i have seen very few comments from you here over the last few months...some people write more than others, and many (most) do not write at all...

i honestly do not recall seeing a link to your work...it is pretty easy to miss things these days, so it is always a good idea to put a link up twice or so...i remember missing one of Rafal's links...he simply posted again, and i had time to look..

in the very near future we will have a permanent place, Digital Railroad, for links and individual works of selected photographers...you may know that i have "assigned" about 15 photographers whose work i know well and regularly post and are critiqued by all readers and by me...i cannot possibly critique every link that everyone sends..i do see many more than i have time to write about...however, honestly, a really great link will make me write!!!...and like everything else in life , it does not hurt to keep asking....if i feel a photographer really really wants some feedback from me, i will figure out a way to do it....so, i guess my point is, you have to stay on top of it...make sure we all know what you are doing....suggest an assignment....keep us up to date...so many do this here and it seems to work...

post your link again...if i have time to write this much to you, i have time to take a look!!!

cheers, david

[panos skoulidas .]

PEOPLE,
ALL, PLEASE DO NOT GO TO SLEEP...
I HAVE A "SURPRISE" FOR YOU ALL...

ok.. let me make it "clear"...
for all the "xxx" lovers out there... fuck you...!
go to bed... i have "nothing" for you all...
for the ones that expect the "revolution",
or the next "messiah"... fuck it , go to bed...
but for the "simple", the "open-minded", just gimme 20 min...

;-))))

[david alan harvey]

CATHY...

anyone who messes with Anton and Panos is my enemy!!!

oh Cathy , you know i am teasing, but how did you get yourself in this mess??? you actually HAVE contradicted yourself....better go back to the archives and check it out!!!

hasn't the discussion over "traditional" vs. "leading edge" gone on for centuries??? "no accounting for taste" is an understatement, isn't it??

not all "traditional" is worthwhile...nor is all "nouveau verité"...

one thing for sure about critique and the subsequent interpretation of the critique...usually the critiquer and the critiquee are not on the same page..if the two do not have the same REFERENCES (i.e.knowledge of what has gone on before), then the critique can be taken out of context or totally skewed in the mind of the critiquee and a total misinterpretation of the words of the critiquer...get it??

hugs, love, david

[erica mcdonald]

DAH

about what you just said re references..yes, yes..a thousand times yes..

PANOS / ALL

about fragility..someone just sent this to my inbox

Walk around feeling like a leaf.
Know you could tumble any second.
Then decide what to do with your time.

[Ross Nolly]

David;
I hope you don’t mind me re-posting this but am really interested in the b&w conundrum I mentioned above. Any thoughts? (If you have enough time)

Thanks

“I’ve had to become a lurker for the last month or so, I’ve been too busy to contribute. A magazine I work for folded and as it provided 50% of my income I’ve had to do a lot of scrambling about looking for new work… Things were pretty dire for a while but hopefully things are back on track now.

Re the B&W debate; A hypothetical situation. I am about to put a gallery up on my website and I feel they are stronger in B&W. Do I put them up in colour because that’s what editors are saying they want? Or do I go with my gut feeling and leave them B&W and maybe lose sales.

If you totally rely on image/article sales to pay the bills it’s actually quite a serious conundrum… Any thoughts?

I’ve deleted and added some images to my Timor gallery on Lightstalkers so any comments would be appreciated…. Additions are #’s 14, 15,17,18, 27. The photo essay and article will be out in the December edition of Australian Photography (B&W and colour).

It doesn’t look like I’ll get back to Timor for Xmas because of the magazine hassle, but should be able to by March/April.

Cheers everyone.”

[david alan harvey]

ROSS...

NO DOUBT ABOUT THE ANSWER TO THIS ONE....

i am surprised you even asked....

OF COURSE, YOU PUT UP THE WORK IN BLACK AND WHITE...the way you feel it looks best...

surely you want to make editors pleased with what you do...you want another job from them.

but PLEASING editors and PANDERING to editors is two different things..besides, are you really SURE they would not be interested in you as a black & white photographer..do not listen to too many people..figure out who you respect...mostly, listen to yourself...create an interest in you as a photographer based on your talent, ability to get the job done, and a true knowledge of the story at hand..as i have said several time before, be the the smartest person in the room on any particular subject...editors respect that...

on your site, it might be wise to show that you can shoot color IF you actually have some great color...not just because you CAN shoot color...

walking the fine line of doing your "own thing" and still paying the bills is one of the main things this forum is all all about....

cheers and welcome back, david

[Ross Nolly]

David;

Thank you! Those were my thoughts too, but it's good to be able to bounce ideas to solidify your own views. The changes I have made are both b&w and colour.

I have only used colour when I thought a particular image screams colour.... I feel it comes down to integrity, and hopefully it shows in the resulting work.

Cheers

[panos skoulidas .]

walking the fine line of doing your "own thing" and still paying the bills is one of the main things this forum is all all about....

cheers and welcome back, david

Posted by: david alan harvey | September 15, 2008 at 10:26 PM

sometimes ... MANY MANY TIMES,... WALKING "UNDER" the "FINE"...Line...
wayyyyyy under....!
feel me..?
ever lived in LA ????

[david alan harvey]

PANOS....

hey dude, i am with you and feel your pain...seriously...for one thing, i am totally trying to finance my family project by myself (so far)...nightmare...like why did i decide to shoot med format film and make double sets of contacts on a self-financed project??? digi would be one twentieth the cost overall...

so, you are working the wire??? balancing act?? cutting it close??? living the dream , but teetering on the abyss?? welcome to the club...

hey, you are doing the work..in your own way...do it well enough and it might just come back to you financially...selling books, prints, getting an assignment tailored to you...this should get you just enough money to go out and spend it doing yet another project that will get you even closer to that deep deep hole where you walk along the edge and feel the breeze knowing you could slip at any moment, but also realizing you can really LIVE no other way....

breathe deep....enjoy....

cheers, hugs, david

[Ross Nolly]

"where you walk along the edge and feel the breeze knowing you could slip at any moment"

Well David, the wind has sure blown long and strong over the last month..... But couldn't even begin to consider doing anything else!!

Cheers

[panos skoulidas .]

ok, ALL.... LINK 44...( HOW TO SURVIVE IN A BAD ECONOMY- if... you have the skills...!

http://web.me.com/innerspacecowpanos/%22VENICE_BEACH%22/44%29_WORKING_,_PERFORMING_VENICE....html

VENICE BEACH.............!

[erica mcdonald]

DAH

sorry, but have to laugh in a joyful / mournful way..

'why did i decide to shoot med format film and make double sets of contacts on a self-financed project???'

the girl sitting here scanning her stacks of negatives feels your pain..in fact I want to buy you a beer more than ever now.

I just hope the club that you are inviting Panos to join doesn't have any dues that aren't payable by credit card :)

[wrobertangell]

b/w and color issue, that is also a bit of a tricky one for me too, I realized that I truly love the way large format renders color, but I also love shooting b/w, so I find myself taking 2 shots of the same subject unless there is no doubt that it would be better in one or the other. so generally I end up with two sheets of the same thing, it can be a little costly. but I do like the thought of an extra back up sheet just in case.
I am really looking forward to presenting the new work I am shooting in Echo Park LA, David, when the work is up, in 1 or 2 weeks, would you all please take a look. I am shooting, as I said, color and b/w and the final edit will be a combination of both, but it would be pretty cool to get some feedback.
best wishes to all

[david alan harvey]

PANOS....

nobody has more really bad pictures mixed in with some really GREAT pictures than you!!

but, what the hell, it is part of your charm...

do i get to meet this crowd when i show up at Venice or will you give me a sanitized tour??

cheers, david

[Patricia Lay-Dorsey]

CATHY

I've just returned home after four days away and am doing my best to catch up on all that has happened here. Not an easy task. But I was struck by your comment posted earlier today in which you asked the question,

"Some days all I read here is how GREAT everyone's work is....Is it ALL that great? Maybe it is...but is that really what everyone is looking to hear?"

I am one of those on the blog whose feedback is often positive. At the same time I am always honest. If I have a question of suggestion about someone's work, I never hesitate to say it.

Back in the mid-90s when I taught watercolor painting to adults, I learned to suggest not critique. Believe me, I'd had my share of confidence-destroying critiques in art school. From them I learned nothing. But when a professor brought forth new ideas and suggestions as to how I could improve my work, I lapped it up. I personally believe that encouragement is a more effective teaching tool than criticism.

When I say "encouragement," I do not mean patting someone on the head and saying their work is great when it isn't. I mean finding the best in someone's work and encouraging them to explore that direction. It means focusing on the positive not the negative.

There are still ways to say that something is not working. But if I go hammering that point without bringing up what IS working, the listener is inclined to miss the point because their defense mechanisms get triggered and they can no longer hear what I have to say.

I sense that most readers/participants of this blog want to grow, want to hear the truth, and are asking for feedback that will help them move forward. Each of us is at a different stage of growth; that's what makes it especially important not to judge one the same as you'd judge another. A good number of our people are professional photographers who have been doing this work for years. Others are just starting out. Sometimes I know their history and sometimes not. That's why I try to step gently so as not to be too harsh on tender souls.

I have no idea if I have answered your questions or not. These are just a few thoughts that your post triggered in me. Thanks for introducing this most important discussion.

Patricia

[david alan harvey]

ERICA...

yes, i guess am crying on the wrong shoulder with you out there with 4x5 film..

please show up at my place this friday evening..invitations soonest...yup, my loft workshop show and fiesta...

hope to see you soonest...

WROBERT...

yes, of course, i am anxious to see this work...

cheers, david

[panos skoulidas .]

ok... really...

this a collage... a fake " apotheosis " of what a greek tragedy is...
so ..

http://gallery.me.com/innerspacecowpanos#100219&view=mosaic&sel=0

[david alan harvey]

PATRICIA....

you articulated so well...many thanks...

hugs, david

[david alan harvey]

PANOS....

crashing hard..just can't take it anymore....eurotime...class early..eastern standard time....a whimp...good night....

peace, david

[panos skoulidas .]

..... laughing...... laughing........ laughing !!!!!!!!

peace y'allllll... tired ....... time to EAT SOMR REALLY GOOD.......... "

peace

[erica mcdonald]

I'll leave the (scanner) light on for you..

SLEEP WELL

[David McGowan]

"but for the "simple", the "open-minded", just gimme 20 min..."

Do you have anything for the "simple minded"?

[wrobertangell]

thanks David

[cathy scholl]

DAVID, PANOS... ANTON PLEASE BACK ME UP HERE...

"anyone who messes with Anton and Panos is my enemy!!!
oh Cathy , you know i am teasing, but how did you get yourself in this mess???"-DAH

DAVID...WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???
I DIDN'T MESS WITH ANTON OR PANOS! I think Anton will tell you we were all having a very nice conversation all day that everyone was enjoying...AND THEY WERE THANKING ME FOR BRINGING UP THE SUBJECT. What's the problem???

Please re-read...you will see that I have not messed with anyone or gotten myself into any mess :))) I swear! PEOPLE...PLEASE BACK ME UP ON THIS!!! I JUST came home from TAKING AN AFRICAN DANCE CLASS AND HAVING A GREAT DAY. You guys, David especially seem to have misunderstood something...although I can't figure out what!

DAVID PLEASE RE-READ! Then maybe you can tell me what you are talking about.

[cathy scholl]

DAVID...

Now that I have calmed down slightly...We were having a discussion throughout the day that took a bit of courage for me to initiate and I felt REALLY GOOD about how well it went....for all concerned. So good that I was inspired to take a dance class for the first time in a long while! So it was more than discouraging to come home to find you (and possibly Panos) had skimmed over the entire conversation and somehow misunderstood it and were saying things to me about being your enemy!!! That's not very nice...joke or no joke and honestly I'm a bit pissed off at the moment. I'm going to try and forget about it and not let it ruin my day...but I really don't get where you are coming from at all! NO JOKE!

[Kelly Lynn James]

Today was my favorite day of the year. The first cool day of fall to break the summer heat in Texas. It will no doubt be 98 again, but today we got a break. Everyone gets a break sometime. :)

I'm in New York this weekend. Hope to see some of you there. 'Night from Texas.

[Gustavo Aragon Garcia]

david

ok i see thank you now i have to work on it
Salud

[cathy scholl]

PATRICIA...

Thanks so much for joining in on this conversation after you've just returned home. Your contribution was very valuable and yes, you definitely answered my question and then some...I mentioned earlier wanting to know where people were coming from regarding critiquing (and being critiqued) and you have shared valuable insight based on your experiences. Great!

[cathy scholl]

BOB...

To confirm...I definitely did not see your comment as criticism. I appreciated it. :))

[herve]

I personally believe that encouragement is a more effective teaching tool than criticism.
----------------

Frankly, Patricia, i do not see why criticism would not be also encouraging. Maybe the word in daily english has only negative connotations, with the likes of being "critical" (being negative).

Between "great!" and "confidence-destroying", surely there is space for what is commonly called a critique, which every art proposed to an audience is subject to.

[guido]

DAVID,

http://www.eatmorebeef.org

as hervè correctly pointed out, it's not an essay but something more like a gallery of portraits.
When you have time....
thanks a lot

[anton]

cathy

DON'T WORRY... everything's fine, no misunderstanding! as far as i "skimmed" just now, i could see the conversation you started going on, added by some friendly jabs... no-one thinks you were actually messing with me! or anybody else for that matter

you are so sweet... and at the same time i am so smiling reading your panic :)))))

----

omg i woke up to this whole conversation that happened while i was sleeping... true things said, funny things said, all makes me smile starting the day... what we all have here is really really good and every time moments like this make me realize that

and patricia... very well said... thanks for that too... and i think Herve has a point too: criticism just too often has a negative connotation.. it definitely should be possible to give criticism without being confidence-destroying

i guess a lot depends on the one *receiving* the criticism: how high does one value the criticism received and how does one act upon it... that all mixed together, if done right by the "giver" and the "receiver", is the "good" kind of criticism that leads to higher grounds...

GUIDO
yes it is purely a matter of moment and time... like in a regular conversation... if no-one reacts, just re-post... looking at your images now


CATHY again

ok now i'm rattling your chain, but i just can't resist, forgive me, i gotta say:

anyone who messes with my Panos and David gemini, is my enemy!!!

:))))

love to all

[audrey bardou]

Hi Guido,

I remember myself very well your subject, I like very much your portraits treated with this color "aged" as these ageing persons, I am endowing more touched because it reminds me my grandfather who lived several months in an old people's home and he was allowed die...
I think that it is going to be a big problem in the future, the number increasing of person old, not enough places of accommodation, the high price and the staff not enough considered as old people's homes, level of the pensions which decreases and the coC of the life which increases...
Good continuation, audrey

[Ana Yturralde]

ROSS NOLLY,

Interesting work at Timor! Some of the pictures really got me, #3, #10, #22, #25

Cheers,

Ana

[david bowen]

guido

the opening shot of your website really reminds me of some photographs of the benefit agencies in the u.k. when they needed renewing.. tired places.. was it paul graham?

will look properly later on.. between classes now.. just came to say
PANOS
you dared me and so i have :o)
shown your venice project in action to my photo class.. had them in stitches laughing in places.. split them into groups of three.. each chose a random title.. then had to look through.. choose a photo or two and talk about it.. why they liked it.
the boys chose GIRLS GIRLS of course.
will email later.

ANYONE WHO TWISTS A MELON IS MY ENEMA.

[anton]

bob

received giacomelli's book today... i'm in for a treat tonight when i will open it...

hugs

[Martin Brink]

WOW! What happened here? I thought what Cathy said was thoughtful, but it may have provoked some. It started with me critiqueing Anton's work which Cathy commented on. As far as I see it she didn't do anything wrong. What David said about references is true, but I think that most of us here are at the same page. We don't have totally diversified styles. And also if David is going to be only one able to critique work I honestly don't see any value in this forum.

Cheers

[marcin luczkowski]

something abou critique:

I have not read most of last comments so maybe it will be not on subjest.

For all photographers/artists critique should be like air. Works should be discussed... no... have to be discussed. There will be many people who will say awful words about what we do, how we do, and why we should not do it at all. There will be many people who will say ah! and Oh! and Wow! about ours works.
That's the rule.
There's is no way to recognize which critique is good and which is not.
This is all subjective.
There's no rule.
Bu you will feel that. Because this is your work. You are at the beginning and at the end of everything.

My photography is one big shit.
My work are; shallow, unsimilar, easy, unfounded. Buy mostly just shallow. There is nothing behind than easy naive coulorful images.

I am after two art shool, and thousand hours of discussions and critique about every kind of art with hundret of artists. I know many things about art theoretically.
But critique is also big responsibility, baeause most of critique must be about future. If you want say something about some works you should know what shud change for good. And mostly critique (in magazines for example) are stupid and useless.

I am last one who will and is able to make critique of anybody work.
Mostly because weakness of my own work and because I know this "responsibility".

I agree with Martin, This forum not exist without discussion and critique.

really must run no time to write more.

peace and good critiques for all

[david alan harvey]

CATHY...

well, i thought i was very very clearly teasing you...my intent was total "100% tongue in cheek"...i even went "over the top" in what i thought was the kind of way you would know for sure i was teasing...the kind of humor that you only do with friends who you are quite sure will understand...the whole chit chat between all of us who were "on" at the moment was playful, irreverent, silly even...

my apologies for whatever i said that has you coming out so so upset..

apologies, like editing, take longer on line than in person too....

hugs, david

[david alan harvey]

CATHY...

ok, i went back and looked at everything AGAIN....

it seems that you read "wrong" one rather playful thing i wrote and got upset and did not read at all the other thing about REFERENCING which preceded it to set up the whole chat about critique....

now, do you really really think i would blast you on line??? why would i do that?? gentle "poking" is fair game and we all do it sometimes...but i am not prone to anything other than constructive criticism

but, you seem to be a little more upset than you might need to be given the whole dialogue in context...

but, my apology is still on the table..that table over in the corner with flowers...

relax....love thy neighbor...have a good day.....

peace, david

[Glenn]

ROSS - Funny you should pipe up just when I rock into Nhulunbuy , I won't get to see the perma culture mob you suggested this time around as I Have a 4 day assignment and have just spent the first day with my ass welded to the car seat driving from Darwin to get here , but thinking about your pain Re clients folding - I'm just comming up even 3 months after one long time client decided to give me the arse , The Personal work V Proffessional balance is one I'm living every day , every time I order 20 rolls of 220 colour trannie - can I afford this ? , got to make every roll count , no praying and spraying , everything about the stuff I do off on my own is a challenge , why clour trannie? Because it's hard , why Med format? Because it's hard, Sometimes I think I have bitten off more than I can chew in the work I started 4 years ago but I gotta keep chewing like crazy!
15 hours in a car on the great Arnhem Highway is making me bloody crazy , out shooting all day tomorrow after I pick up the erstwhile scribe from the airport .
DAH , BOB , SIDNEY , I'll have some new stuff to show you guys as soon as I can slip in a little scanning time - Running , driving and soon sleeping !

[david bowen]

marcin / martin

i see a whole bunch of good stuff coming off of the forum which is other than critique of work - and it's great.
i'm not suggesting david AH be the only voice of reason here.. just saying i'm looking for other things from the forum..

different strokes for different folks and all that business..
the best thing i have gained is friendships which i believe will last.. connections to people i admire regardless of the edit.

something i have also noticed is that people are beginning to form into units.. not exclusive nor a cliche', just people who tend to comment on each others works.. and i think that is great as well.. positive subdivisions.. help rather than hinder..

for what is a friend but your needs answered
(paraphrased - kahil gibran)

[Patricia Lay-Dorsey]

HERVE & ANTON

Just to clarify...

When I post a link to my work on this blog, I often specifically ask for "constructive criticism." That kind of critique implies that you are building upon (constructing) what is working rather than simply tearing down what is not. Yes, it is a form of criticism but one that IMHO encourages the artist/photographer/filmmaker/whomever to move forward in a constructive way. Mutual respect is its essence.

This is the kind of critique I see happening all the time on this blog. May it ever be so.

Patricia

[david bowen]

panos.

so.. my students liked your work.. saw the strong images straight away and completely understood why you are putting it all 'out there' to see.. as a collection of rough edits it worked wonders in helping them see what i am talking about with 'initial edits'.. notes before writing the novel.
i showed it in context with episode 4 of the bbc's 'genius of photography'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r73sJhH1VzQ
which starts with a moderm road trip and wanders back to victorian beech photos, shot with a camers disguised in a paper bag.. genius stuff indeed and i think you'll really enjoy that segment of the show.

and so.. the classic theme you have settled upon within a context of the past worked out well for them.. and i hope for you.
sorry - no time to ask permission to show.. ended up pondering jim, bob bullshitting, venice, and more.. i left the more personal aspects of your documented life to one side, (coward - me?), and concentrated on the volume.. shooting.. noticing something worth a shot..

it's made me look forward more to the final edit..
one of the fav snaps was the film producer being introduced.. from memory.. the cross made of hands and arms.. foreground 'rock' hand gesture.... beer.. liked it.
another was jim and his lover rocking the bells together in the empty swimming pool.

muchas thanks and heaps of pea's.

bob.

we ALL da man (an da woman)

[david alan harvey]

MARTIN BRINK...

i am not so sure that everyone is "referentially on the same page"...you might be, but not everyone...but, one of the things that so many do here with regard to "referencing" is to refer to books, shows, etc so that those who are not sure of the context of critique will become so as time goes on..

the nature of this forum is totally educational..or , at least, that is MY intent..

and yes yes, anyone posting work for critique, comment, should be expecting comments from everyone else on this forum...

i try to spend as much time as possible helping those who have assignments or are involved in long term projects or are making very tough life/career decisions and moves..

i do some of this on line...i do a lot of this at home with many who walk through my door spontaneously...and i do this "officially" and best at workshops as i am doing in my loft right now with 12 members of this forum...you will see the results of this week of shooting and critique soonest...

the problem with the on line critique is that it takes forever to find out what a photographer has as intent, what photo/art historical references they may have, and the inability to actually edit (although this should become way way easier by next week with our DR deal)...i.e. saying "i like #4 and #5" is not editing...at least not in the way that i view editing, sequencing and balancing a body of work for publication or for a gallery presentation...

now, case in point:

GUIDO...

please read the above and understand my dilemma...you have sent us a set of pictures from an old peoples home...i have no idea whether you are 20 years old and planning a career in photojournalism or whether you are one of the old folks in the home!! context matters!!

i do not know why you chose this subject..knowing this would help...i have no idea of your overall intent nor your experience in photography prior... although it looks as though you are an "entry level" photographer or just have photography as a serious hobby...for a real critique, i need to know all of these things....or, i at least need to know these things so that i can best tell how i think you may want to proceed....

from just a purely photographic standpoint, and just based on the pictures you are showing us, i think you have a lot of work to do to move up to your "next step"...

your lighting, composition, and general ability to capture a moment need refining..

tell me now...how long have you been a photographer?? what motivates you to be a photographer?? how do you earn a living? what previous work have you done??? what are your short term goals?? long term?? what do you love more than anything else?

ok, running now...but, i do hope to hear from you...

cheers, david

[bobblack]

PANOS :)))

just a quick note to make clear in case you need the artillery, since i write u alot "off-line", it goes without saying that i love yur Venice work...it's totally fucked, totally wacked, totally you, the good the bad and the motherfucking ugly and it sings. i sure aint crazy about all the images and who cares 'cause i can tell u straight up that i sure aint crazy about 1/2 the shit i do either and yet i stick it up together 'cause it is who i am and what i love so much about venice (much much more than the pics about foreclosures) is that it's you, chaotic, dramatic, real, fake, punk, loving, weird, lost you. there are some priceless pics in the 1,000's of pics u have on the site but i cant seperate them too from the "throw aways" cause what i love about this series is that it is without a doubt your commitment to the place (for whatever reason in all of LA-LA land) you feel connected too...all these frickin' characters and the truth is that you are a character too and it shows in your work and i think the pics and captions and "personality" of the work simply rocks...and at least for me, i think some might confuse "refinement" for "good photography"...for me, there is only 1 criteria: is the work interesting and does the work reflect total downthethroat-upthewazzu commitment to it's idea...and while venice is both total cliche and total reality of LA, it just seems to be your beat...really, i see it as a film, like all the once-brilliant films that LA once-upon-a-time was able to create in the 70-'s...like hal ashby's work...anyway...just so u dont think im coppin' shit, im a big fan of venice live...the same way i love would LOve TO SEE MORE of that other LA Cat Wrobertangell's work...who also is brilliant and at the opposite end of the spectrum...

MARIN B: :))..cant speak for others, but i think what you and Anton did was totally what this blog is about: dialogue and discussion between phootgraphers :))...shit, Harvey has got enough on his place (that dude seriously must take a vacation, and get away from festivals, blogs, workshopts, etc, and get some serious one-on-one time (with himself) for rest and spirit, which im about to tell him in person in 2 1/2 weeks ;)) to comment on work, so i think it's important that those who seek seek and those who wish to comment comment, all good my friend...my only small point was that just because people choose to praise or choose to remain silent doesnt mean its less real that "critiques"...often critiques (and in no way is this a reference to what you and brother Anton accomplished) are just as vapid and meanlingless as empty praise, only as Marcin points out, critique often "sounds" more enlightened/professional...(i've heard lots and lots of empty bullshit at portfolio reviews, it's quite silly) :))...but all is good with what you 2 did :)))

PATRICIA :)))) right on sister, right on...

CATHY: :))..cool, no worries...

BROTHER GLENN: CANT WAIT TO SEE IT :))))...send when you can :)))

ANTON: :))))...I CANT WAIT TO HEAR YOUR REPORT ON GIACOMELLI :)))...seems like you got the book before Lassal!...prepare to be alone from the world for a few weeks ;)))

PANOS, DAH, ERICA AND ALL:

on poverty...self-financing (god bless you dah ;)))...life...yea, totatLY get that shit...just wrote david before our trip about all that shit...hell, we're trying to make ends meet with a teenage son on frickin artist salary living in an expensive (ridiculously so) n.american city...reality is that: to buy film is a real issue, to process film, to have (got to have time) to scan, edit etc...and to know that most of the world (and they shouldn't) doesnt need, care, want you shit...but, well that's the life ya'll...i dont think there is one week that goes buy without Marina and i having the family chat about finances and how to make this life work as artists...but is this any different from the life that most people live around the world: how to put bread on the table, put a roof over the shoulders, how to have some free time to relax or dream or enjoy one another's company...hell, often times the whole art world, photo world seems to me like a spoiled, pampered, rich clique of folk who dont have the slightest perspective (and I include myself in that narrow-minded mentality) about things...shit, being able to afford to be able to fucking photograph is a blessing in itself...and you'll never hear be cry one bloody word of regret that what marina and i do as artist isnt "understood" or "accepted" 'cause like you do it because it's in your blood, its the only stupid way we know how to live: to cherish and make shit and ruminate on this life...and all of us will disappear, all our work will have meant nothing in a year, 5 years, a generation, whatever, so it is just essential that if you have chosen to do this gig, that you love love to do it, cause i can tell you this, in my very limited experience, most people wont have a clue about why you do what you do, most of the editors wont give a fuck's ass about you unless you are famous or know someone famous or go to the right schools or know the right people or whatever, most people swing around their expensive cameras and equipment and badges of honor (who they know, where they've been, what awards they've garnered, what mags have published them, who they cocktailed with, who they dovetailed next to on the swing flight, etc et cetc) and for what...for bloody hell what?....with that in mind, i've been a lucky man...i've made some excellent friends and have the great grace and wealth to count the times i've had wonderful chats and time with people who share this stupid, balls-frustrating obsession, and in truth, i dont really give a shit about the rest...i want to make work, i want to support my wife and son and see that they are peaceful and suffering-less and simply alive and at peace....the rest is just nonsense and pretense...

ironically, i re-read Kafka's The Hunger Artist last night, when i awoke in the middle of sleep and couldnt go back to bed...i recomment anyone to read it who has not or for those who've read it, to re-read it....a small smothing to ponder:

"Many days went by once more, and this, too, came to an end. Finally the cage caught the attention of a supervisor, and he asked the attendant why they had left this perfectly useful cage standing here unused with rotting straw inside. Nobody knew, until one man, with the help of the table with the number on it, remembered the hunger artist. They pushed the straw around with a pole and found the hunger artist in there. “Are you still fasting?” the supervisor asked. “When are you finally going to stop?” “Forgive me everything,” whispered the hunger artist. Only the supervisor, who was pressing his ear up against the cage, understood him. “Certainly,” said the supervisor, tapping his forehead with his finger in order to indicate to the spectators the state the hunger artist was in, “we forgive you.” “I always wanted you to admire my fasting,” said the hunger artist. “But we do admire it,” said the supervisor obligingly. “But you shouldn’t admire it,” said the hunger artist. “Well then, we don’t admire it,” said the supervisor, “but why shouldn’t we admire it?” “Because I had to fast. I can’t do anything else,” said the hunger artist. “Just look at you,” said the supervisor, “why can’t you do anything else?” “Because,” said the hunger artist, lifting his head a little and, with his lips pursed as if for a kiss, speaking right into the supervisor’s ear so that he wouldn’t miss anything, “because I couldn’t find a food which I enjoyed. If had found that, believe me, I would not have made a spectacle of myself and would have eaten to my heart’s content, like you and everyone else.” Those were his last words, but in his failing eyes there was the firm, if no longer proud, conviction that he was continuing to fast..."

the full text is available on line...

running
hugs
bye
b

[Katharina]

Panos:
DAH:it's you, chaotic, dramatic, real, fake, punk, loving, weird, lost you...
yes, that's the (almost) daily wake-up call we get from your updates....

DAH:
I hope I can show you ( or send you...let's see) some new work soonest....am in BKK for the x'th time and looks like on each trip there's been some new experience ....

[Akaky]

and it's number...